Lovely, But Not Fair

In this episode, we unpack one of the most pervasive yet often unspoken issues in the Tamil community: colorism. From childhood comments about staying out of the sun to the subtle (and not-so-subtle) ways lighter skin was praised, we explore how we first learned that skin tone could influence how someone was perceived and valued.

We reflect on the messages we heard at home, in our families, and through Tamil and Indian media, and how those experiences shaped our own relationships with our skin. We also talk about how our perspectives have evolved over time, what it means to embrace our natural complexion, and why these conversations matter for the next generation.

This episode is about challenging the beauty standards we've inherited, and redefining what beauty looks like for ourselves and our community.

Transcript

Aarthi 0:00

Hi everyone, welcome back to Akka's Unsolicited Advice. I'm your host, Aarthi, and we're here today with Ponni Akka to talk about something that actually really means a lot to me. So I'm really looking forward to sharing our stories with y'all today. We're gonna talk about something that shaped mine and many others' experiences growing up Tamil, colorism. So for many of us, skin tone wasn't just about appearance. It was tied to beauty, confidence, marriage ability, and even worth. Sometimes subtly and sometimes very directly. Comments about being fair or dark were often framed as casual observations, jokes, or even compliments. But over time, those words stick. In this episode, we're unpacking where those messages came from: family, media, colonial history, and the movies, and how they influenced the way we saw ourselves and each other. This isn't about blaming our parents or shaming our culture. It's about understanding the impact, questioning what we inherited, and deciding what we want to pass on. Because the goal isn't guilt, it's growth. So let's get into it. Akka. Do you remember when you first learned that skin tone mattered?

Ponni 1:17

Very young. I mean, probably late elementary. And it was really from my grandmother, who by the way, I'm extremely fond of. So, like for me to say this, I mean I'm legit saying that she she had this super bias towards fairness. And you know, and she was she was pretty fair. And I am I mean here nor there really when it comes to skin tone, but I do remember because I would spend all my summers in India, and I was a kid that played in the sun, and so I absorb sun like nobody's business. I'm not a burner, I'm a tanner, like an immediate tanner. Like I can be out for an afternoon and I'll come home and look like I'm like four shades darker.

Aarthi 2:19

First of all, I can be out for 10 minutes and that happens to me too.

Ponni 2:24

Doesn't bother me at all. But then my grandmother would be like, oh my god, you can't go out in the sun. You can't, you know, you can't get darker. And I was just like, why? Why is this such a big deal? I mean, you know, does it really matter? But her constant emphasis on not getting dark, I think it started when I was like in late elementary and it's just continued over time.

Aarthi 2:55

Well, given that we have the same grandmother, she also loved to comment on my skin as well. So me and my brother are darker than all the other cousins because like my grandmother on my dad's side is darker skinned, and like that's just who we look like more. And I would come back after like pre-season of field hockey when I was like obviously out the whole time, and like my baseline skin color is darker than everybody else's in the family, but then add like six weeks of preseason, and then you come to India. I'll be coming off my like 24-hour flight, and the first thing Ammayee would say to me would be like, "yennathu ivalo karuthu poi iruka"

Ponni 3:37

Yep. Famous lines, famous line.

Aarthi 3:43

And like the thing is, she said it every single time that I can actually quote the play-by-play of every single time I walked into Ayya's house coming from the airport. Yeah, and it's like I know a mmayee loved me. Like, I'm not trying to pretend that like her love for me was somehow associated with my skin color because I don't think it was. I really don't. But the way that like that just like stabs you in the heart and like just twists every single time she would make a comment like that is so like that was really upsetting when I was younger. Because you can't undo it. Like, what do you want me to do? I can't take it away.

Ponni 4:22

So it's like it's worse than you know. I know we had a previous episode talking about you know, bodies and you know, getting comments about our bodies, which at least has maybe a minimal way of changing something, but skin color, I mean, though I'm sure we will talk about all the various ways they commented on how we can change that too.

Aarthi 4:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yes, but I think it's like it also took me a while to like unlearn not liking it because honestly, my skin has served me so well my whole entire life. Like, I don't burn, I don't actually have like I barely have acne when I was a teenager. Like, my skin's been protecting me this whole time, and I don't think I appreciated it at all when I was younger. And I tried to be the kind of person who was like would get like defend myself in when people commented on my skin color, but then I would still have this internal thing of like having my darkness be a little bit less than, like make me a little bit less than, and wanting to do something about it, even though I hated the concept of people who want to do something about it, if that makes sense.

Ponni 5:40

Yeah, I I think that's always a personal dilemma, right? What you should be doing versus what is actually happening in your mind.

Aarthi 5:48

Yeah. I mean, did you like ever use the like fair and lovely and stuff like that?

Ponni 5:54

Yes. I cannot believe that I thought this 25 rupee lotion was going to somehow change my skin tone from like what it is to like 10 shade lighter. Like, if that was true, I mean everybody in India would be fair because everybody can afford this 25 rupee fair and lovely thing, right? And just the fact that I grew up and I I think by the time maybe you're older, but definitely by the time Suda was older, it wasn't a thing anymore. Like fair and lovely is just you don't see commercials about it, it's not a big deal anymore. I think more people have taken a stand on Brown is beautiful concept, but fair and lovely was like the thing when I was growing up.

Aarthi 6:46

And I mean my dad used fair and handsome.

Ponni 6:50

Yeah, and it made zero difference, I can tell you that. And it was really bizarre because the way that people talked about fair and lovely, nobody fucking talked about sunscreen.

Aarthi 7:03

Oh my god, don't even get me started.

Ponni 7:06

Knowing about sunscreen. Like until you guys are harassing me about wearing sunscreen. I mean, it was not a thing until I married my super white husband, and he'd be like, dude, why are you not wearing sunscreen when you go out? And I'm like, what? Why gotta wear sunscreen? I'm brown, you know, but it's like nobody talked about sunscreen, like at all, like skin health, like pigmentation, you know, sun things related damage, but everybody talked about fair and lovely. Nobody talked about sunscreen.

Aarthi 7:41

For real. So it's actually really funny because my parents were like, so I was trying to convince them to use sunscreen, and my mom was like, No, I don't need that. My dad's like, why would I need that? blah blah blah. And then I got them both like live tinted sunscreen for Christmas one year, and now like they're obsessed with sunscreen. Because my mom's like, actually, like, I feel like the sun is hurting my skin when I don't wear the sunscreen. And I'm like, interesting that you say that because it is it is so yeah. No, that's actually that's a really good point. No one did talk about sunscreen for a culture that is so obsessed with light skin.

Ponni 8:19

Yes, I it just baffles me, you know, versus like you said, your mom now, my mom now. I mean, they're all very much into sunscreen. Like my mom, my mom has amazing skin, and luckily, you know, I got the amazing skin since we got the crappy hair. I got the crappy hair, not you, but I got the crappy hair, so I'm like, thank god you gave me great skin, mom. But she does do a lot now to take care of that skin and definitely prioritizing sunscreen. So I think it's a better conversation today, but still the theme of tanning is not okay, it's still not a very accepted uh skin color.

Aarthi 9:06

It isn't, and I think that's so crazy because like we're Tamil, like we're a Dravidian people, like we all got dark skin. Like, I don't for like the handful of people who don't, that's like the aberration, not the

Ponni 9:24

no, yeah, yeah. Exactly, and then like the favorite comment that I always hear is karpa irnalo kale arka. And I'm like, why can't you just be kale without the karpa comment?

Aarthi 9:40

Like, why can't we say anything nice about anybody without knocking them down a peg at the same time? I think is a larger question.

Ponni 9:47

But this comment is supposed to be that the person looks beautiful, but I'm like, but why is is it more unusual that she's beautiful even if she's dark? Like, is that why you're trying to say it? Yeah. And I don't think they even, yeah, they don't even sense that they're doing that, but that is exactly what the words are coming out of your mouth. Like, you don't say siva pa erndalum kale arca. Like that, yeah, nobody wants to do that.

Aarthi 10:15

No, because that doesn't make any sense. Because being light skinned is like a good thing.

Ponni 10:20

Oh, maybe it would be siva payernal keybra marga. That would be the equivalent statement to that.

Aarthi 10:29

That would be the equivalent statement. Yes, it would. Do you think that the reason for all this like comes from like the colonial history of like Tamil Nadu and stuff like that? Or do you think it's more than that?

Ponni 10:48

I have no idea where it comes historically, but I could see it coming because it was you know, white British people that colonized us, you know. Maybe people that were fairer because they were more similar could have gotten preferential treatment. I'm not sure. But I think definitely fairer is preferred. Like, you know, for a society that was heavily arranged marriages, that was definitely at the top criteria. I think, you know, and and the funniest thing is like the Tamil movies we grew up watching, how everybody will look normal, then there will be the heroine or heroine, however, male, female the main protagonist, she'd be like this random North Indian chick that's so fair, and in some village movie, and she would never live in that village because she doesn't look like anybody else. And you're like, why are we watching this movie where like everybody and the hero can look like shit? Like, yeah, whatever, right? And you know, some of those 80s, 90s heros were pretty bad looking, but this girl just like walked off a ramp in from Delhi or Mumbai, and I'm like, who is this person?

Aarthi 12:13

Yes, but I think a lot of those actresses as well, like got a lot of bleaching done, like they really damaged their skin in order to meet this like light skin ideal that like is like a figment of our imaginations, uh like ultimately, like my biggest my like the biggest hater. I mean, I'm sure Amy Jackson as a person is a lovely individual, but I

Ponni 12:39

did you know that she's not even like she's not even like one percent Indian.

Aarthi 12:44

No, I know dude. Okay, so let me tell you Amy Jackson's backstory. Once again, I'm sure she's a lovely individual. The people I'm hating is everyone else in the industry and not this human being. So Amy Jackson got recruited from like a beauty pageant thing to be in Madrasapatanam as a white girl, like she's supposed to be like the British girl that falls in love with Arya's character in the movie, but she like stayed in the Tamil industry, but everyone kept on like casting her as this like half Indian girl or something like that. And I'm like, to be fair, your child is half Indian and she looks white as hell, so like fine, fine, we're gonna make the argument, but how damaging is that concept, like fundamentally, to like every tamil girl watching a tamil movie being like, hey, your beauty standard is this white lady that we're pretending is Indian?

Ponni 13:46

Yeah, I actually always thought she was half Indian, and then I looked her up one day and I was like, what? She's not even like Katrina Kaif is half Indian.

Aarthi 13:58

Yeah.

Ponni 13:59

So, like, makes me feel a little better because I'm a huge Katrina Kaif fan. But like Amy Jackson, that just blows my mind. I'm like, how did she end up here?

Aarthi 14:08

And like the worst part is like there are perfectly capable, like darker skin Indian actresses that can play roles that have skill and the ability and all the things necessary to be in all of these roles in Tamil movies that just aren't cast by appearance. Because if you look at the women who are casted in Tamil movies, it's not like the majority of them have like an overwhelming amount of talent. Like, do you remember JJ? I don't know who that girl knew to be in that movie, but she was light skinned, but she was a worse actress than I would be. And I can't even read lines off a teleprompter without getting confused. So that was just painful to watch. So it was such a it wasn't about skill, it was about appearance, and it's just kind of silly because not a single one of the major actresses that you see in Tamil movies nowadays are actually Tamil.

Ponni 15:07

Yeah. So I do think that colorism was a very much a part of us growing up. If you look at commercials, if you look at movies, if you look at what your parents or relatives will complement, like everything was so focused on skin tone. Versus, I think if I can remember, my first uh impression of someone coming out against it was really Nandita Das. And one, she was an amazing actress and she did all these off-beat films, but she also embraced what she called or what people I don't know, people around her coined was the dusky beauty, which was what most South Indians are. And so it was kind of like eye-opening that someone had to actually make a conscientious move to stand up and say, you know, it's okay to look this way when actually most of the people watching all these things do look that way. So it was like like it was a moment where I had to reconcile a lot of things in my mind because I was trained to look at her and be like, oh, I mean, she looks ordinary. I mean, that was my thing, right? Like brown South Indian women are ordinary. They shouldn't be in movies or media, or they shouldn't be the standard for beauty because you're you're not aspiring to be anything. All of you all look like that, you know. I think is the kind of narrative that we're getting. Like being light is aspirational, being brown is who you are already.

Aarthi 17:00

Yeah, but like the concept of having aspirations towards your skin color is like inherently absurd.

Ponni 17:07

Super. I think it's super damaging to even because the kind of products you end up putting on your face, I could not like when I started getting facials was maybe when I was in college and not very commonly, just like whenever I went to in India, like the during the summer, I'd get one. And those people would always bleach my face, they would always add bleach. And let me tell you, as a person that's bleached their face, it is not a pleasant feeling.

Aarthi 17:43

Oh, that's horrible. I'm so sorry.

Ponni 17:47

Yeah, but I didn't, and it wasn't like my mom was asking, like she might tell me stop being in the sun, like you're getting brown, and she still tells me that. But she wasn't trying to get my face bleached, but this was just what they did in facials, like everybody wanted to get their face bleached, they don't do that anymore. Thank God. I'm sure they can if you want to, and I'm sure people do, but it's not like a natural part of the process.

Aarthi 18:15

My thing is like, okay, so they might not do that, but I think that everyone thinks that you want to be lighter. Like, my biggest issue was getting my makeup done. So I feel most at home getting my makeup done by not Indian people. Like, flat out. Like, I've gotten my makeup done for like so many people's weddings that I always sit down and I'm like, hello. I have a lot of issues with people doing my makeup, and I would just like to preemptively tell you that I like the color of my skin, and I would like whatever you put on me to match the color of my skin because I want to look like myself. Like, I want my neck to match my face. Like, come on. And it's like so funny because when I go to these weddings in the US, like all the makeup artists are like, Well, yeah, duh, like, why wouldn't you want your foundation to match? But I went to an Indian wedding in the US and I like told them like 87 times. I'm like, please can you not make me lighter? I just want to be my skin color. But like, of course they didn't listen. And I'm like three shades lighter, and I'm like so cranky about it because, like, frankly, I don't think I look as nice when I don't look like myself. Like, I love makeup, don't get me wrong, but I'm not trying to like cosplay as somebody else. Like, I want to be me, but like better, and that's all I really want. So when I went for Dharshini's wedding, like, you know, like I was like, you know what? I'm good. Like, I actually don't need anyone to do my makeup, would love someone to do my hair, but I'm just gonna figure out how to do my own makeup because I don't even want to begin to have this conversation with people.

Ponni 19:49

Yeah, I I think it it's it's horrible. I think Indian makeup artists, I don't know if it's just because most people ask them for that, and so they're like shocked when somebody says that I want I I keep having to go in and re-emphasize I want natural looking makeup. By natural, I mean just go with whatever I look like, you know? And it was very evident when I got married, and this was back in 2011. I had a different makeup artist for my Sangeet, and they made me look like a clown. Like I look like a clown. Now, luckily, after they did the first round, they kind of toned it down a little bit, but we were in a rush, like we're super delayed already. So I couldn't have them like wash my face and restart. But I looked like I'd just gone and taken a bucket of pounds ponds powder and just put it on my face. Like I was like, what the heck?

Aarthi 20:49

Do you remember that scene in Sivaji when he's like yeah?

Ponni 20:59

It was so bad, and then luckily the next for my wedding, I had a different makeup artist who does makeup for the movies, and they were just incredible. And I think that day was the prettiest I've ever looked in terms of my makeup, so they really knew how to do it and match your skin tone and things like that, and bring out your existing features in a way that you don't look like a clown. Yeah, but people still go for the clown look.

Aarthi 21:30

Yeah, it just like is like actually like diabolical to me that like this whole narrative is like at your wedding, you don't want to look like yourself.

Ponni 21:43

Yeah.

Aarthi 21:44

Like, dude knows what he's marrying, like I don't understand why. Yeah, hopefully that's fair. Do you think that it's changed though generationally? Like, do you feel like as We get like in the younger and younger generations, if there's not so much emphasis on this like skin color stuff.

Ponni 22:09

I can definitely see, like, with Anjali, her friends, it's not really a deal anymore. The way that social media has emphasized body perfection, they have not, I think they've broadened the spectrum of skin color. And also because them growing up in a very diverse background. I mean, she has friends from different parts of Asia, she has, you know, Indian friends, she has, you know, Caucasian friends. So you can't really look at this whole group and be like, okay, one is better than the other. I think what they have taken away from it, which is very interesting, is more like skin health and skin care. And she looks at, okay, it's like super patchy over here. I'm getting like these white spots. So I need to figure out why that's happening. I need to put on more sunscreen. I need to protect my. I mean, it's more about that than being like, I need to stay light. Like, yeah, she's already light because she's half American Caucasian, but she's not so concerned about that. Both of them, both my kids tan in the summer, and it doesn't bother them at all. So where I think body shaming has almost gone up, like the colorism, I feel like has gone down in her generation.

Aarthi 23:30

Yeah. Yeah. But do you feel like it's like opposite though? Because I think like I think Anjali told me once that like when she goes to Tamill school, it feels weird because they're like, Who are these white kids at Tamil school? So do you think that it's like different?

Ponni 23:48

I think that's more like an identity crisis. I think half-see children, what I try to endearingly call them. I think they have a little harder time when they're mixed and you know they don't quite identify all the way with one side or the other. I think they do get judgment from both sides. And sometimes I think it's just a curiosity thing, like, hey, you're not, you know, Indian. But, you know, now that my kids are living in India, I don't think they feel that at all. I think everybody notices that they're not fully Indian. They know that. But they don't feel like judgment over it. But I think there's a lot of curiosity, like, hey, why are you here? You must have a special reason.

Aarthi 24:38

Why are you white?

Ponni 24:40

Yeah, yeah. Are you? I mean, I've had security people ask me, oh, are you married to a foreigner? Is their dad a foreigner? And I'm like, as a foreigner, do you mean not Indian?

Aarthi 24:52

I think that's like what they're going for. Because like technically you're a foreigner.

Ponni 24:56

Yeah, like a light foreigner, not a dark foreigner, a light foreigner is what you mean.

Aarthi 25:05

What would your advice be to another girl like learning to accept and love her skin?

Ponni 25:16

I mean, just just be yourself. Take care of your skin. Make sure your skin is healthy. I think environment is more damaging. What we the makeup we use is more damaging. I mean, maybe look and look just look at the products you're using. Make sure like you're taking care of yourself. But I don't think don't don't try to, you know, change it, right? I think that's that's hard. I think that just comes down to just loving yourself the way you are. And I think that is way more multifaceted and deeper than just being influenced. I I I honestly feel like back in the day our brains were like a lot more like two-dimensional. Like I was like, fair and lovely or not. Like I wasn't, I wasn't so deep in my thinking. Like, you know, but I just feel like everything is like a little deeper now that it's almost harder because you're not so black and white. And so I think people have a harder time navigating all those nuances at once. Like, you know, maybe take things lighter, lighter. No pun intended, make things easier and not be so hard on yourself and kind of ride the wave. But yeah, I think it's it's hard to have any real advice because I I don't think the environment has changed a ton. I think media is trying to do a better job of showing things, but it also depends on what media you watch. Like there's media for everybody, so you know.

Aarthi 27:00

I mean, tamil movies still hate brown women, so yeah, I think that's just

Ponni 27:05

and they still say the dumb thing that, oh, look at how great we are. We casted tamil people because we want to be normal. Like, you don't have to say that. That is karupandano kalayarika. It's the same concept.

Aarthi 27:22

I mean, they literally brown faced Pooja Hegde in retro, and that movie came out like last year, so I'm still mad about it.

Ponni 27:33

I think there's a couple of like really great actresses that I like, like Aishwarya Rajesh, and you know, what's that other girl's name? Priyanka Mohan and stuff that I think are just much more realistic in you know, the average person and actually pretty great actresses. So hopefully they get more chances. And I'm not saying this they hate on light people because there's light tamil people too, like, you know, so that that's fine. I mean, but I'm just saying, like, definitely don't brown face people, like, what the heck? Like, you didn't have to do that. Like, she just looked dirty.

Aarthi 28:13

Like, why does she look literally did? And those and the thing is, like, obviously, they didn't couldn't consistently brown face her the exact same of brown face the whole time. So her like skin color changed the whole movie. And let me tell you, that movie was a trip to watch, but all I was doing sitting there going, Is why is she brown faced the whole time?

Ponni 28:34

Yeah, you know, I didn't recognize her in the trailer because I'd seen her in Vijay's movie Master. I think she was in Master, and I couldn't believe those were the two that I didn't know the same girl. I actually looked her up because I was like, Oh, she's pretty. Who is she? And then I was like, wait a minute, that's not that's not who she's supposed to be.

Aarthi 28:55

So absolutely insane. No, it's actually really funny because I feel like what I've learned is that your relationship with your skin and your skin color and how you perceive yourself is like your personal journey. And like you, I think what I've learned is that you can't force other people to accept your skin and love your skin as much as you love your skin and accept your skin. I think because I was having this really serious conversation with my mom about how I know we're gonna throw her under the bus s at the moment, about how I think it's really unreasonable that like tamil movie standards regarding actresses are so biased towards light-skinned women and not necessarily about skill, but about appearance. And how like I was trying to say that, like, even if I could act, if I could never be a heroine in a tamil movie because my skin color is too dark, and I'm going on this like hour-long spiel, like citing references and everything. At the end of this whole conversation, my mom turns to me and she goes, You're not dark skinned. And I was like, Mom, I wasn't like, I'm like very okay with being dark-skinned. Like, I didn't, I'm not, I'm I'm not offended by it. Like, you you don't have I'm not trying to like make you feel make have you make me feel better. Like, there's nothing to feel better or less or worse about. I don't what the fuck? It's like the points left the building

Ponni 30:31

They don't think of us as dark skinned. I think that's another thing. Like there's like so many gradients, like they say, karp, like I mean, really karp, right? Like, I mean what they would consider your grandmother or that, yeah. Right? I mean, that that's one, and then and then you know, a Arun, and then you have like this whole level of manaram, which is like the middle ground, which is like me, you, you know, everybody else. Yeah, and then you get into lighter territory, like my brother's a little bit lighter, and then Aadi is like super light, and

Aarthi 31:08

Aa di's like this random person that somehow exists in our family, yeah.

Ponni 31:13

So it's like this whole thing. So, like she's looking at you and be like, hey, compared to this person, you're not dark. But I'm like, okay, but you'd kind of miss the point.

Aarthi 31:23

Like the point, the point that I was so passionately trying to express to you just did not process at all. And I'm just like, okay, you can't win all your battles. I feel like I understood the point I was trying to make, and I like to walk through the world now, like being comfortable in my own skin, and that's really the maximum amountability that I'm gonna be able to do for this. And I think like that's the thing I want everyone to learn. Like, you might have your blue contacts and your fair and lovely phase, but you will grow out of it. Not that I ever did. Yeah. But yeah. Any last thoughts, Akka?

Ponni 32:06

No, I think we pretty much covered it all. I think, you know, I think there's a lot of people standing up for it now, which is nice to see. So the good and bad of social media, right? I think unfortunately is just it's not a catered experience. You just kind of have to take in everything and then just try to keep the good. But there's definitely a lot more people out there that are expressing how there's such a range of what is considered beautiful, which I think is important, so that people you can meet everyone where they are and tell them that they're beautiful. Yeah. And there is no where in the spectrum you need to go in order to hit that level. Wherever you are, you're fine.

Aarthi 33:00

on that note. See you guys next time.